February 12

S02E02 – Understanding Neuro Linguistic Programming with Amelia Jordan Lee


As we wade deeper into 2020, communication is going to be key. Understanding how we take in the world – and how we affect those around us – is vital if we want to create the change we want to see.

Likewise, it is important for us to understand how what we say – and what is said to us – affects our thoughts, feelings, and behaviors.

I bring on this week’s guest, Amelia Jordan Lee, to share what NLP is, as well as what it isn’t! We also explore some of the myths and misconceptions around this modality, especially when it comes to (*gasp*) marketing.

About this week’s guest: 

A pioneer in her field, Amelia is a true alchemist. She uses a seemingly magical process of co-creation and transformation to get results for her clients. A certified holistic nutritionist, NLP mindset coach, and personal branding strategist, her unique integration of mind, body, and energy techniques combined with high impact messaging helps you ditch the overwhelm, align to your authentic self and amplify your aura so that you book more soul clients. The result? What we all desire –  freedom.


[Jessica Karels]: We have Amelia Jordan Lee with us today to talk with us about NLP, otherwise known as neuro linguistic programming. Glad to have you here, Amelia.

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: Thanks, Jessica. Super excited to be here.

[Jessica Karels]: To start off with - I love asking this question of all of the people I bring on here - what has been your spiritual journey up to this point?

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: Thanks for asking that. Upon reflection, I realized that my spiritual journey started when I was about seven years old. I often chuckle about the memory of this. I was sitting in Bible school, and it was about I think it was I was about seven or eight, third grade-ish. I was baptized Catholic, in Catholic school, and I had just gone through a class.

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: I was introduced to this notion of evolution and learning about the apes and that's where man came from. Then I was sitting in Bible study and they're talking about, God and that's forgotten. I remember raising my hand and asking the question. I'm like, "I don't understand, right? How can you tell me one thing - we're coming from apes - and then the other were coming from God?"

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: I think that's really when my spiritual journey began in terms of what is this larger force that's out there that is bigger than me and and that guides our - you know - I think for a lot of people just really is their guidepost and their north star. It's kind of taken me through different learnings about different religions and about different spiritualities and different ways of looking at it from Buddhist to Taoist to all the different kinds of things. I am very inclusive in my thinking of spirituality and I always say, you know, to me it doesn't matter what you believe in is if it's something larger than yourself. If it's a tree, if it's God, if it's a rock, if it's Buddha, I think it's really important for people to have that north star; something that's pulling them that's bigger than themselves. It's taken me all over the world and in all sorts of different directions, but really is come back to looking at it from that perspective of, "It doesn't really matter what we believe, as long as it's something bigger than us," because I believe that there is something bigger than us pulling us.

[Jessica Karels]: That's a pretty cool journey and experiences there. To move forward on this, one of the things you shared before we started this is that you are you specialize in NLP, or neuro linguistic programming. Can you share a little bit more about what that is?

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: If you break it down, neuro linguistic programming, the definition of "neuro" is really looking at the nervous system or the mind through our experiences. We've got the visual, the auditory, kinesthetic, olfactory and gustatory. How is it that we're experiencing our world?

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: Then you look at the linguistic part, and that's really the language and nonverbal communication that represents the neural representation of our world. It's really looking at the pictures, the sounds, the feelings, how we describe our world. We're using the words. Then the programming, it's kind of like a system of excellence, if you will. It's really the ability to utilize the programs and our communication to achieve the results that we're looking for.

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: So that said, I think if it is as NLP is how to use the language of the mind to consistently achieve our own outcomes or results in less time. That's what I really like about it too. Imagine a human brain and you have an event happen, and then each individual has their internal filters that they take that information through, and then process it, and then use language or behavior to express that. For me, NLP is not about fixing or being broken or changing. It's just recognizing that we all have our own unique experiences of our own world, and it's really understanding how best to understand another person and another human being so we can more effectively communicate.

[Jessica Karels]: I like how you brought that part up in the end because I think when people look at various modalities, they automatically assume some sort of healing intent or healing goal, which in turn implies brokenness, which can cause some defensiveness. I like that you say that it's not about wellness or brokenness. It's about understanding.

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: Absolutely. I was first introduced to NLP about 20 years ago, and I remember that was one of the most impactful parts of my training. When I was introduced to it, they didn't speak of it as NLP. It was kind of - no one really said that's what it was.

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: I remember my trainer just saying that. He says, "There's nothing wrong with you. There's nothing to fix. This is just a way to understand not only your own internal representation of the world and how you see it and how you behave and react to it, but also other people. It's an ability to be able to more effectively communicate and nothing wrong, nothing needs to be changed. Just an awareness."

[Jessica Karels]: You've mentioned a greater ability to communicate with other people and better understanding of yourself. What are some other benefits of utilizing NLP?

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: I like to use NLP to really for me, what it helps is to release a lot of the anxiety around wanting to to do it the right way. It's really the ability to let go of a lot of the barriers of unconscious that we don't even know have happened over our years that has shaped our behavior moving forward. Again, nothing about the past needs to be fixed. It's just recognizing, "Oh, that happened. Here are the filters that I've applied to situations like that in the past to help me move forward to survive".

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: I think for me, for NLP, it's just it's another way to view the world and human beings. It allows for me to be able to step into that person's shoes and ask the question: what's going on for them or what's happened to them, what is is going on in their past? With NLP, we really look at talking about our reality as a reflection of ourselves. It's really looking at how we can learn from other people, and how we can learn from our reactions to that at a very base level and how we can build more rapport. so that We can better communicate and really engage more effectively in the world.

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: For me, it's really giving me a sense of freedom and an understanding of why I do some of the things I do now. This is not me saying I know everything. I've always said about any trainings that I'm doing or anytime I'm talking to a client, I always say, "This is not the truth; this is just the way I see the world and the way I look at things".

[Jessica Karels]: That is pretty cool there. Again, as you were saying, it's about using those tools to build greater awareness and build connection. I do want to address or bring up the topic of myths around NLP. Actually, the first time I heard of the phrase was when I was looking at information on the internet about B-School. For those of you who are not familiar, B-School is one of the offerings of Marie Forleo, which is focused around tools, resources and mind-shift trainings in order to be able to transition from being like a nine-to-fiver to being an entrepreneur or starting your business and really driving it. One of the critics mentioned that Maria and other coaches like her utilize NLP to techniques in their "free trainings" leading up to enrollment, so don't be surprised when you find yourself in the "take my money daze" at the end of the enrollment sequence and not knowing why. So is NLP something that is used to try and sway people in a negative way like that, or is this more of a misunderstanding of what's going on with the use of NLP in those types of trainings?

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: I believe that with any kind of communication - whether it's NLP, whether it's any other type of marketing that we're doing, or any language that we're using to elicit a specific response - essentially, that's what selling is right? Marketing is we want you to buy our product. I think that NLP has gotten a bit of a bad rap because it is effective.

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: When you understand someone's buying decisions, and when you understand how they process information, you can speak into their listening. That's kind of how I like to say it. If you understand how they're going to buy, then you can tailor the words that you're using to have them purchase from you. I have had the same kind of icky feeling sometimes around NLP as well. I think where that comes from is it's a very powerful technique, and when used for not great purposes and - blanking on the word the moment - but if you're not looking at it for altruistic purposes, and you're really wanting to manipulate people, you can use it to do that.

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: I think it really looks at where's it coming from. For me, Marie Forleo, she was my first big kind of reintroduction back into the online education world. Looking at the intention behind the words is important as well. If you're really aware and you can process that information, you understand a little bit better about what the tools and the mechanisms are designed to do, whether it's NLP, whether it's any other technique where we use language to elicit a result. It's kind of all the same and I think NLP is just another tool in our toolkit that we can use that is quite effective.

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: It's really about looking at the mindset. I like how you mentioned mindset as well as it's really looking at people's minds and how they're making decisions and that can be manipulated. I think that as you become aware, this is less than less so and you can choose. You still have a choice. At the end of the day NLP is always about: be at cause Are you at cause for your life or you in reaction or in effect mode? I think that we're all at cause for our own lives. We're using those tools to enable us to to really get the results that we're looking for.

[Jessica Karels]: I'm of the camp that, yes, she does utilize some NLP techniques in her trainings and marketing. A lot of it comes down to when you look at people who are trying to go for her course - there are people who have dreams. They have wants. They want to move forward, but they're constantly talking themselves out of it. For some reason or another, they don't feel that they have the power to change their situation. They feel like they're in react mode versus take charge mode. Being able to shift the conversation to say, "You can take charge. Put some skin in the game to get these resources so you can do so faster," I'd say that is a healthy use on any type of sales tactic or communication tactic, be an NLP, story-selling, or any of the other techniques that are out there.

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: I love that you bring that up because I think it's something to highlight as well. Yes, they are effective, and we do have what we what I like to call the difference between our conscious and unconscious mind. Consciously we may say, "Yes, I want this," but something in our subconscious or unconscious - you can use it interchangeably - is keeping us stuck. Whether it's the language of, "I'm not good enough," or we've all heard about imposter syndrome and all of that. I think from Marie's perspective, it's really, "How can I help people shift their unconscious mind so that they are able to break free of the constraints that are holding us back and then move forward?"

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: We all have those unconscious thoughts. If we really stop and we're honest with ourselves, we all have that, whether it's, "I can't do it", "I'm not lovable", or "I'm afraid that I'm going to make the wrong decision". So that's our unconscious. I like to think of it as that that part of us that wants to keep us safe and comfortable. I think with what Marie is showing is like, "Hey, just by different ways of thinking and shifting in our mindset, we can have everything that we want. So what's getting in your way?" and she's asking the question.

[Jessica Karels]: Yeah, she's not going through and saying your life will be perfect. She is very upfront in her pre-work of "This is work; this is not glamorous. We will try to make it fun, but this is work."

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: She's very authentic about it. Yeah. Like you said, she's very upfront. I think one of the other things too with NLP is it's not a bandaid, right? It's not like oh, we're just going to sweep it over. It's really, it's tough work, and really uncovering what's keeping us stuck. That's why I think it is work, and building a business is work. Looking at how to blend the the notion of changing people's perception, changing people's minds is scary for some people, but when done, it can be done very powerful in helping people achieve their dreams. Some of the people in B-School are doing amazing things. It's just simple little tweaks to their mindset sometimes.

[Jessica Karels]: If any of our listeners want to learn more about NLP, what advice would you give them?

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: First thing that pops into my head is do your homework.

[Jessica Karels]: That is completely legit.

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: There is a lot of people teaching and training NLP, so make sure that when you're going through the training that - if you do want to be become trained in this - that it's it's certified. Make sure that you are in alignment with their views on NLP, because again, NLP is just like any education system. It's got a foundation, but whoever is leading the training will have their own thoughts and comments on it, so make sure that you're in line with what they're thinking. You can do this by having a conversation with them, watching their videos, anything like that. That's the path that I would take, and ask for anybody in your community. I think NLP is becoming a little bit more mainstream now, if you will, and so it's becoming a little bit more accessible for people to reach out like you did and say, "Hey, what are some new techniques?" Again, it's just do your research, ask the questions, and make sure you're in alignment with the core of their belief system.

[Jessica Karels]: Amelia, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your knowledge about NLP with our listeners.

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: You're welcome. I could go on for hours. Yeah, it is a deep subject. So yeah, interested in it. It's very deep and it can go very wide. I encourage everyone to at least just get a little bit of information on it because it's very helpful. Even if you're not writing copy or content or advertising or anything like that, it will help, I think, in your communication with other people.

[Jessica Karels]: If someone wanted to connect with you, how can they get in touch?

[Amelia Jordan Lee]: They can email Me at [email protected] - that's all one word. It was "Amelia Jordan" - a little long - but that's a whole nother story altogether. So [email protected], and then I also have another website called "Modern Alcheme" and that is alchemy with an "e", so they can check out those two websites for more information on the different things I offer.

[Jessica Karels]: Alright, cool. We'll make sure to include those in the show notes.


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